Which cnc

[Jonathan]

It's certainly worth a look. It's better than most, however the X-axis drive is worrying:

'All machines have Ballscrew x axis with rotating ballnut'

Having a rotating ballnut is excellent for good feedrates, but the description and photo appear to show only one ballscrew on the X-axis. This will severely compromise the rigidity of the machine. Think what happens when the tool is cutting towards the ends of travel on the Y-axis - there is a force pushing the gantry, but the support (i.e. the ballscrew/nut) is a long distance away so it will bend and 'rack' the gantry. If you're only cutting MDF then you would get away with it, but it will still limit your productivity and surface finish. For £5k you should be able to do better than that. This is a typical example of the manufacturer trying to save money since it would cost them (very roughly) £250 more to add another ballscrew and motor (has to have another motor as rotating nut).

The only person whose objective is to ensure you have a high quality machine is yourself.

[John S]

For £5k you should be able to do better than that. This is a typical example of the manufacturer trying to save money since it would cost them (very roughly) £250 more to add another ballscrew and motor (has to have another motor as rotating nut).

The only person whose objective is to ensure you have a high quality machine is yourself.

I disagree with this strongly. it looks a nice machine, well made and made in the UK so higher costs.
There is a limit where a manufacturer can throw in all the bells and whistles and still make a profit to stay in business.
Jonathan's estimate of £250 is insane as he's only counted the cost of the screw, nut and motor.

Now throw in all the mounting hardware, driver, building up etc and that £250 is no where near.

Presumably Jonathon you are paying business rates on that 100' x 80' shed in your back garden just as you are reporting everything you earn to the revenue ?

It's a no win situation, buy Chinese and it's crap no matter what level you buy at, buy British and you are getting ripped off and attacked by the garden shed brigade wanting to buy everything for nothing but sell their product at high prices.

[Jonathan]

Now throw in all the mounting hardware, driver, building up etc and that £250 is no where near.

I did say very roughly. From eBay a 1500mm ballscrew with the bearing mounts is £115 but he's using a rotating nut so the bearings will be more expensive - call it £160. One additional 3Nm motor and 80V driver is £75 max. Better PSU needed, another £15 to supply the extra motor. Another two pulleys and a belt, £15. That's 160+75+15+15=£265 so I think very roughly £250 was a reasonable statement as clearly I wasn't including labour.

Presumably Jonathon you are paying business rates on that 100' x 80' shed in your back garden just as you are reporting everything you earn to the revenue ?

I might not pay revenue but I do pay VAT.

It's a no win situation, buy Chinese and it's crap no matter what level you buy at, buy British and you are getting ripped off and attacked by the garden shed brigade wanting to buy everything for nothing but sell their product at high prices.

Who said anything about charging a high price? Imo the prices charged in the CNC industry are usually extortionate. I try to lead by example by charging around £6-£7 per hour for time. My objective is education, interest and not making a loss, not looking after other people's profits.

Why not ask them how much to add a second ballscrew? They might say it's too much work to change the design, but it can't hurt to ask.

Also in the listing there is far less information than there should be. It doesn't look like any of the pictures have the actual machine that listing is selling - the AR1200. Some of the bigger ones have vacumm bed and other nice things, you can bet that costs more.

[John S]

I might not pay revenue but I do pay VAT.



Who said anything about charging a high price? Imo the prices charged in the CNC industry are usually extortionate. I try to lead by example by charging around £6-£7 per hour for time. My objective is education, interest and not making a loss, not looking after other people's profits.

So you pay VAT on the £6 -£7 per hour you charge then ?

I have no objection with what has been said about the ballscrew just how costing is worked out.
You are working out of a shed that mummy and daddy are paying all the expenses for and you are trying to tell registered business's how to do their job ?

[Jonathan]

So you pay VAT on the £6 -£7 per hour you charge then ?

VAT is a tax levied on goods and services. I pay VAT on the things I buy, which a business may not have to. Surely I do not qualify for VAT because:

'When you must register for VAT:
Your turnover for the previous 12 months has gone over a specific limit - called the 'VAT threshold' (currently £77000)'

Plus it says I don't pay income tax below £2710, so that doesn't apply to me or many of the 'garden shed brigade'.

You are working out of a shed that mummy and daddy are paying all the expenses for and you are trying to tell registered business's how to do their job ?

Please don't jump to conclusions, sadly that is no longer the case.

[JAZZCNC]

VAT is a tax levied on goods and services. I pay VAT on the things I buy, which a business may not have to. Surely I do not qualify for VAT because:

'When you must register for VAT:
Your turnover for the previous 12 months has gone over a specific limit - called the 'VAT threshold' (currently £77000)'

Plus it says I don't pay income tax below £2710, so that doesn't apply to me or many of the 'garden shed brigade'.

Nope any business pays Vat just the same has you, diference being they can claim it back. . . BUT they must then charge VAT on any labour or product sold. . . .Either way the Customs and excise want there cut.!! . . . . Mess with them and they bite hard.!!

So if your so sure then get intouch with Inland revenue and tell them all your undeclared earnings, I'm sure they won't mind you not paying tax on your £7 hourly rate because your working out the shed.!!

Being self employed I see John S point completely regards costings and UK business pricing. I'm also one of the first to condem Uk business's for ripping UK buyers off but in this instance I don't think this company is doing that if the machine turns out to be all that it's made to appear.? . . . Thou I do suspect that won't be the case.!!

Oh and the machine in the U-tube video was actually using belt drive not R&P.!!

[Jonathan]

Oh and the machine in the U-tube video was actually using belt drive not R&P.!!

Fair enough, I was wrong - it is belt driven. That makes it worse, so lets hope it's ballscrews for the five grand.

[AdCNC]

I try to lead by example by charging around £6-£7 per hour for time.

Fookin ell Jonathan i charge between £35-40 per hr but i suppose my garden shed is abit bigger :-P and i have to charge for the Dreaded VAT.

At the end of the day You get what you pay for regarding quality of jobs done and components/machines bought.

I can sympathise with Jonathan but i feel your pain JohnS ;-)

[John S]

At the end of the day You get what you pay for regarding quality of jobs done and components/machines bought.

Yup and for £6.00 you are going to get a blinder, that lad puts his prick in places I wouldn't put my umbrella.

[JAZZCNC]

Bovey this machine looks well built . . BUT. . don't be seduced by the sight of all the trimmings it shows in the picture and the description.

It says Vacuum and dust extraction built in but it doesn't actually say comes with Vacuum pumps or dust extraction machine.? . . It does say starts from £4995.
Vacuum pumps can be very expensive and it shows 2 so I would be asking some questions to exactly what you get for 5K.?
I would also want to see the machine in the flesh and if you don't have much experience with CNC machines then suggest you take someone with you who does.? It very easy to blind newbies with science and bull shit and unfortunatly lots of company's rely and pray on this.!!

Every thing Jonathan says regards single ballscrew I fully agree with.!!