Your thoughts on the AR1200 from Machinery & Electrical

[george uk]

After looking again, 5K is a lot for that machine, even without knowing what electronics run it. You could probably build that for 2K. You would want wider rails and a few design changes. I will dig up the lists that i wnet through for that price over the weekend and post them.

How oftern will it be used, and whats the maximum size you looking for. how much space have you got to fit it in, and is it just hobby, or hobby/business, or full business use

[JAZZCNC]

After looking again, 5K is a lot for that machine, even without knowing what electronics run it.

No sorry while I'm unsure about the machine crudentials and some aspects of the build 5K is not over the top really when have to take into consideration this is a business and he has to provide warranty and all that goes with running a business. Your 2K only reflects a small part and large cost of building these machines comes from labour and running costs.
Obviously the man is looking at buying so building isn't his first choice or a choice at all.

Also don't get why you say needs wider rails because width doesn't really come into it provided they are suitable for the job and mounted correctly, it's the load ratings that matter and these are well on top of the job in all ways. (Thou would possibly have used flanged bearings on X axis.!)

[george uk]

No sorry while I'm unsure about the machine crudentials and some aspects of the build 5K is not over the top really when have to take into consideration this is a business and he has to provide warranty and all that goes with running a business.

Yes sorry i ment 2k for a home build of that,

Also don't get why you say needs wider rails because width doesn't really come into it provided they are suitable for the job

I just presumed, thats why i asked him what he generally wants it for, hobby or work or industrial output...

[Franco]

Thanks for the help guys. FWIW, the machine is £5200+VAT which works out to be ~£6.2k

I'm definitely serious about buying a machine. I'm a CNC programmer/machinist by trade and I've lusted after my own router for a long long time. I did want to build my own but with my work load in and outside of work I simply don't have the time, hence wanting to buy.

JAZZYCNC, it's a shame you don't have time to build one for me as you obviously know your onions. I do know what it's like to be short on time though. I would however really appreciate your input on other machines if possible though, thank you.

George, thank you for your input too. I would love to see these other machines you have seen.

I would say I'm looking for a machine for hobby/business work. I do do a lot of manual work for people and I would love to start making a lot of things of things with a CNC. I can see myself putting a lot of hours/work into products and so I want a machine that can perform a fair few hours a week. To be honest, once I get one you would struggle getting me off it! I would like a decent machine that will last though, I realise I'm not going to be able to get an industrial spec machine for my money but I would hope to be able to get something fairly decent.

I would love a machine that could work with full 2440x1220 sheets but I'm going to have to settle for a smaller machine for now due to space. I don't want to go too small though and limit what I can make so ideally a ~1220x1220 window would be ideal for now.

Thanks again for the help.

[GEOFFREY]

Hi Franco, I think that you are mistaken when you say that you cannot get an industrial machine for £6K. If you can find the space and have access to a 3ph supply the older industrial machines represent fantastic value for money IMO. Chances are that if you do buy such a machine it will come with a CAD/CAM system, tool holders and probably an automatic tool changer. I bought an old (1999) SCM 120 on ebay (not-working) had to spend some time and money (still ended up within your budget) and although it is a bit old, I think it is a fantastic machine, very heavy duty and hopefully will last for many years to come. You do of course need space and a 3phase supply, but it may even be worth considering renting a small unit if it is for commercial use. Good luck with whatever you decide. G.

[JAZZCNC]

Hi Franco, I think that you are mistaken when you say that you cannot get an industrial machine for £6K. If you can find the space and have access to a 3ph supply the older industrial machines represent fantastic value for money IMO. Chances are that if you do buy such a machine it will come with a CAD/CAM system, tool holders and probably an automatic tool changer. I bought an old (1999) SCM 120 on ebay (not-working) had to spend some time and money (still ended up within your budget) and although it is a bit old, I think it is a fantastic machine, very heavy duty and hopefully will last for many years to come. You do of course need space and a 3phase supply, but it may even be worth considering renting a small unit if it is for commercial use. Good luck with whatever you decide. G.

Agree with Geoffrey but you also have to be careful because you can easily run into trouble with machines that use dedicated bespoke software or hardware that is difficult to replace or very limiting in what can be done regards software, esp when it comes to 3D work.
In this instance then you nearly always have to convert the machine to run on modern hardware and controllers so you can use modern software and keep machine running. This does require a pretty high level of experience and intimate knowledge of control software setup, esp if the machine is equiped with numatic's and automatic tool changers etc.! . . . . . Not something I'd recommend for someone with only operating experience or newbie to CNC.

[Franco]

Hi GEOFFREY. Oh I completely understand that you can get a used machine for under £6k but I'm a little concerned with some aspects of this such as JAZZCNC mentioned. I realise I'm going to get less for my money by buying a new machine but at least I should be able to get up and running fairly quickly with it and it will (hopefully) have some form of warranty/support. Once I have my own machine I should hopefully be able to get to grips and understand the hardware side of things more and a second larger used machine could well be an option in the future.

For now, I only have a garage to work from with a 230v supply. I'm hoping to move to a bigger place within the next three to five years and hopefully build a larger workshop but for now this is all I have. I really don't want to wait much longer though and I really would like to start developing some products this year. Just for reference, this is an (old) photo of my garage/work shop. It's not quite so tidy at the moment however



If anyone does have any suggestions for new machines then I would love to hear them. From what I've read Marchant Dices machines are not too good and neither are Stoney CNCs. The only other ones I've really seen are the [Heiz T-1400/105] and the [EXEL CNC SL1314 Pro] although I'm not sure what they are like and both are probably going to be over budget by the time everything is accounted for.

[EddyCurrent]

Yes sorry i ment 2k for a home build of that,

I just presumed, thats why i asked him what he generally wants it for, hobby or work or industrial output...

There's no way you could build that for 2k especially when home build suggests retail prices and VAT

[JAZZCNC]

There's no way you could build that for 2k especially when home build suggests retail prices and VAT

Agree with you Eddy to build it exactly like this with all the trimmings etc then it will be hard to do at that money and even if did it would be low spec, which this machine probably is for the base start machine. IE low spec drives, parallel port controlled etc. I suspect to get this machine with a decent spec then upgrades will be suggested and offered. This is exactly what Exel and lot of others do with there machine's they offer a base machine to attract then suggest upgrades or folks find out the hard way and buy base machine only to see it's under performing and then get stung for upgrades.!! . . (this pisses me off)

To build this machine to a decent spec and do a proper Job of it will require closer to 3K and lots of time. It's very easy for folks who have never built a machine to under estimate what's involved and I'd say 95% of builders always under estimate the TOTAL cost's and 99.9% the amount of time needed.

Franco: The excel machines are OK I've worked on one and I build a Desktop router design that is very similair(not copied I was building mine before them) so can tell you 100% the design works well for routers. But like you say you won't get much from them at this size for 6K and it will be closer to 10K with the correct spec.
The Heiz machine I don't know much about as I've never had hands on one but from what I see I'm not overly impressed and they are rediculously over priced for what you get. The desktop version you could easily build for under 2K.

Mechant dice machines I won't even waste the skin on my fingers typing about. . .Lol

[cropwell]

I have to ask JAZZ why he lumps low-spec and parallel port together. I know I only have a hobby machine from MD and I am vastly dissatisfied with it, but parallel port works OK within the (low) capabilities of my current machine - that is if the PCF07343 controller they used hadn't gone on the fritz. Is there some magic with usb motion controllers that makes something great happen ?

BTW the MD company motto is "UNUM NATUS PERPARVIS" which translates as - one born .......