New build – input/comments appreciated

[ngundtoft]

Ah - thanks for help with € - it is on the 5 key, but not marked.
Did not know that motion controller (MPG) is so important. Is it so much better to have separate ones for each axis? It seems that many of them can be used for all axes. What does "100 grand Haas" mean?.
I did look at the Pokeys Electronics (controller and BOB) - what is your impression with that?
With respect to servo motors - what specifications should you be looking for if you want to replace Nema 23 or 34?

[JAZZCNC]

MPG is nice but it's not required for general use and on a machine used mostly for wood ie: router then individual MPG's are wasted money to me. On lathe or Milling machien with lots of setting up etc then yes I'd probably consider them but not on wood router.! One is enough and then it's more of a luxury than needed.!

Same goes with servos for me with Small/Med router based machines like this. The price difference is 3 x that of Decent steppers. AM882 or Em806 Digital drives with 3-4Nm steppers will be less than £100 per axis and they easily push 60Kg around at 10,000mm/min or more with 10mm pitch screw which is plenty fast enough for any DIY machine.

[hanermo2]

The good part about dedicated MPGs is that they work like a manual machine.
Ie you are never switching on the pendant to a given MPG.

It makes the machine extremely productive for one-offs, for manual use, and for setups.
Most faster than any manual every made.

The 2 best controllers I know of are;
1. CSMIO. Very good, expensive full-on (1000€ and up, industrial).
2. Pokeys. Very good, cheap (150 € ish).

Both have excellent drivers, excellent support, and good features.
Use ethernet !

It may be instructive to note, I am not mentioning anything else, I have stopped using 3 other solutions.
The others that may be good are machmotion and something else, .. no personal experience.
Use ethernet !

Ethernet is galvanically isolated and has very low latency.

[hanermo2]

??
I found an Em808 at 115 €.
Add 130 for motor, 30 for proper cables and connectors, == 275 €.

With the servo at 290€, ..
Seems about the same price to me. And you need to make the fussy cables.
No ?

The price difference is 3 x that of Decent steppers. AM882 or Em806 Digital drives with 3-4Nm steppers will be less than £100 per axis ...

[JAZZCNC]

??
I found an Em808 at 115 €.
Add 130 for motor, 30 for proper cables and connectors, == 275 €.

Hannu I didn't say EM808 I said EM806 and the AM882 which is pretty much the same drive can be bought for £50 add £25 for 3Nm nema 23 and that's well under £100. I fit these all the time to routers and they easily handle what is required for router machine this size.

[hanermo2]

Right, ok, now I get it. I misunderstood.
Spot on.

I have a 10-pack of new 2M542 stepper drives, cost 45€ each. Very good drives, I removed the gecko (251) drives from service. Less noise, no back emf, differential (I used single-ended).

These pair well with the cheap 23 size steppers, and are, as you said, ok for lots of smaller machines.
Well under 100€, as you said.
For small machines with nema 23 motors, that type of stuff is good, and cheap.

Its only once you go to larger steppers and higher voltage/current drivers the cost goes up, and is then about the same as servos.

Hannu I didn't say EM808 I said EM806 and the AM882 which is pretty much the same drive can be bought for £50 add £25 for 3Nm nema 23 and that's well under £100. I fit these all the time to routers and they easily handle what is required for router machine this size.

[ngundtoft]

I have started looking at the electrical side of the project. I noticed that GTJim switched to the PMDX-126 BOB, and has a setup very similar to my own. Since the Pilz safety relay PNOZ X9 seems to be available from eBay for reasonable prices, and I do not have much experience with these relays, I have based my diagram on the very nice drawings that GTJim has made.
I have a few questions though:

• You can connect the stepper drivers to the BOB as open collector (common anode) or PNP (common cathode). Has anyone noticed any differences (with eg. noise) by using one or the other type?
• The stepper drivers have Enable signal terminals – which output terminals from PMDX-126 should you use?
• The stepper drivers also have alarm signal terminals – if you would like to use this function how should it be implemented? Should the relay cut power or activate the K pin (machine hold function) on the BOB?
• GTJim has implemented a limit override switch – what is the practical use for this?
• Can you use the K1 or K2 relay (in PMDX-126 for controlling a vacuum cleaner?
• I also noticed that GTJIm uses a separate time delay relay for the power supply (1 to 10s). But this is not really required. I noticed that the Pilz safety relay has an on-delay of approx. 150ms (PNOZ 10) which is perfect for this use. 1 to 10 s is way too long time and only results in heating up the resistor. I could not find a data sheet/wiring diagram for Pilz PNOZ X9. Does anyone have a link for this?
• I am not sure if I should use single or 3-phase connection to spindle motor. 3-phase operation can be implemented by using a contactor controlled from the Pilz safety relay.
• Mains power indicator – since the other power supplies have indicators I think that this one is not really required

[JAZZCNC]

#1 No difference really take you pick.!
#2 Any spare output you want to use. Then set Mach3 Enable output to that pin number.
#3 Use the Fault Input.
#4 Because when you trip a limit then you need to temp override that limit to drive off the switch.
#5 Yes
#6 Google is your friend try this.! http://www.is-com.ru/files/PNOZ_X9_en.pdf
#7 Can only use three phase if it's a Three phase Input which it won't be unless you asked for 3 phase input VFD. If single phase Just use R & S or R & T both work.
#8 This so you can see it's powered up on the outside of the control box. Personal choice but I prefer to see if box is powered so it doesn't get left on.

[hanermo2]

The average cost of the Haas machines I worked with, and sold, were 73k€, approx 100.000 $ at the time.
100 grand.
Haas is a large, very succesful, builder of large industrial machine tools. Nr in the the USA, nr 1 by nr of machines, in the world.

Disclosure: I used to be their sales manager for Spain.

What does "100 grand Haas" mean?.

[ngundtoft]

Hi Hanermo2. Thank you for your input, I will consider an MPG - it sounds like a nice feature. But you are way out my league. I am building this machine because I cannot afford to buy a similar machine (and because I think it is fun). Obviously for professionals and companies a difference of a few hundred € per axis is no big deal, but for for my little private project it makes a difference. Also buying one or three MPG's makes a difference.