At least we do seem to be getting a few positive ideas - maybe it will exceed "J's" 1 - 2%. I am looking forward to seeing your new design Jonathan, but do suspect that it will fall outside of the "starter" category. When I started this thread I knew that it would be contraversial, but had hoped that one of the more experienced members might be prepared to give it a go. the basic parameters were discussed some time ago, but were not finalised. The idea is to open up discussion about the requirements of a smallish robust uncomplicated "starter" machine and then hope to find that a project manager/coordinator could make the final design decisions and decide on materials suppliers etc. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that with the mathematical prowess of people like Irving and Jonathan, engineering skills of people like Jazz and John S and the dogged determination of people like myself we could soon have the best machine plan/kit available. In mentioning names I hope that I have not offended anybody, I was only referring to "people like" as I am aware that the forum has many other highly skilled and knowledgeable members. G