BT/ISO15 ATC Spindle Cartridge on Kickstarter

[JAZZCNC]

Dale I was and still are very interested in your spindles but the only thing that stopped me was the fact I want larger tool sizes and BT30 would be preferred option so do you have any plans for cartridges of this size.?

Also what's the news on the Motors with encoders I saw you post about a while back.?

[dalecnc]

Dale I was and still are very interested in your spindles but the only thing that stopped me was the fact I want larger tool sizes and BT30 would be preferred option so do you have any plans for cartridges of this size.?

Also what's the news on the Motors with encoders I saw you post about a while back.?

I've been producing BT30 cartridges for several years now, you can see a picture of it on my website.

I've already submitted three consecutive orders for the asynchronous servo spindle motor and two orders for factory programmed closed loop 4.0KW VFD's to run them and this is noted in updates on kickstarter.

The cost is $750.00 plus shipping, we wind the stator, build the rotor, send it to china and viola, we have a real spindle motor at a very low price.

At least with the motors I only have an MOQ of 5pcs but I've sold 11 times this in the three orders, more than the number of cartridges I've sold

What people fail to understand is that I have nothing on a shelf to sell, I am not doing this as a business, I have no inventory on hand or the money to waste on inventory, I don't have a store or web-store or time to manage one and if I do these things the money for these resources has to come from somewhere (this is what profit is for and I have none).

If you're looking for videos, fancy documentation, long drawn out conversations to educate you on the product and it's use or anything more than a simple picture of the product, you will find I have little interest in making the time to provide these, I will make little effort to convince you to buy anything from me as I do not directly benefit from the sale, I promote the products availability and expect the purchaser to know what he wants.

What I do is build to order and allow the home/hobby user the opportunity to get a product at production cost which they wouldn't otherwise be able to get.

I'm easily annoyed by the e-mails from people who think a BT15/ISO15 cartridge should only cost $200.00 and demand I sell them one for this price cause it's all they can afford but I find it easier to tell them they'll get one as soon as I get the order for 2,000,000 units that I'm waiting for and then ignore future communications.

Unless you need 10pcs of BT30 spindle cartridges the wait is long as two specific customer products can't be offered due to proprietary technology (multi-port rotary unions) and when a production run occurs for the BT30 spindle cartridge provided to Servo Products, you have a very short time (3-4 days) to make a decision and pay for your cartridge if you want one and, when it comes time to pay, if your payment is not received in time you lose, I can't delay production because you need time to come up with the funds.

Production cost for a basic BT30 spindle cartridge and air-cylinder is $1615.00 plus shipping, the specific mechanical details are based on the customer making the order but are typically 8,000RPM BT30 spindle cartridges and, if you are ordering 10pcs, your not a home/hobby user and your not paying this price unless your ordering 50pcs.

The BT15/ISO15 cartridge offered on Kickstarter is entirely my design so no one can cry about who I sell it to as long as the 25pcs MOQ is met, I at least had enough prior notice to give people ample time, this isn't always the case.

All clamps and shafts are USA made (I want them made correctly), the rest is done in china where it's cheap and the big companies like HAAS and Servo Products do this so don't preach to me about giving work away and putting people on unemployment, if they'd work for a reasonable rate all the work would be done in USA.

Federico Pozzi, the sales manager from IMS s.a.s. wants $575.00 for an ISO15 petal clamp with an MOQ of 20pcs, he'd do $420.00 for 100pcs and $365.00 for 500pcs (I have the e-mail to prove it), once we figured out the manufacturing trick we can do it dirt cheap in comparison, hell, if I could make 500pcs the cost would be about $75.00 each.

We can make the router ISO15 petal-clamp for $65.00 with an MOQ of 25pcs and someone bought 25pcs of petal clamp plus 25pcs of my 3.0KW stators (made in USA) plus 25pcs of my rotors (made in USA) and 25pcs of my bodies (made in China), made his own shaft and rolled his own ISO15-ER20 router spindles for dirt cheap and I had hoped he would sell them because it would have been a really cheap solution for a lot of people who want ATC in a disposable product.

I say disposable because he used the cheapest china bearings he could find (about $30.00 for the pair of AC's with light pre load) and the entire cost per unit was about $900.00 and I'm surprised that none have detonated after more than a year of full production environment usage.

Next will be the tool changer for the BT15/ISO spindle cartridge, it will be designed/configured as the customer needs which is currently for 6/12 tool holders (it might change later to 8/16), if you want one great, if not, you can find or build your own and I'm working it out so there will be at least 30 days to give people time to come up with the funds as they just shelled out for motors, VFD's and cartridges.

[JAZZCNC]

Ok will be in touch at some point regards BT30 I'm happy to wait and payup front if need be.!

Can I just say thou we are not the Zone here and we don't expect spindles for nothing so you won't get all the shit you get on the zone.
So really no need for the defensive tones of your messages, I understand why because of all the shit i've seen you take on the zone etc but honestly here it will just put our backs up.!!

Carry on the good work I for one think your doing a great job. . . . . Thou don't mind admitting at first I was sceptical and a little untrusting but I've watched closely so know your Ok.

[dalecnc]

Ok will be in touch at some point regards BT30 I'm happy to wait and payup front if need be.!

Can I just say thou we are not the Zone here and we don't expect spindles for nothing so you won't get all the shit you get on the zone.
So really no need for the defensive tones of your messages, I understand why because of all the shit i've seen you take on the zone etc but honestly here it will just put our backs up.!!

Carry on the good work I for one think your doing a great job. . . . . Thou don't mind admitting at first I was sceptical and a little untrusting but I've watched closely so know your Ok.

Yes, I'll admit it, I am a little short and a few other forums are the contributing factor to my abrupt behavior so while I'm in my infancies here, perhaps the calm and soothing demeanor will rub off on me and I wont be so quick to pounce at the mere implication or subtle hints of impropriety.

I'm zoned out, I've concluded that the meager few I've help there isn't worth the abuse I've received there and so far, even though I've been harsh, everyone seems to let it blow off rather than pour gasoline on the fire and this tells me my experiences here will be different so I will make a conscious effort to keep myself in check but have no issues with a deserved pounding if the powers that be decide I've crossed the line and need my head slapped.

What I have noticed, 37 of the 55 spindle motors ordered are going to the UK, 9 of the 14 cartridges are going to the UK, don't you guys have anyone actively promoting the CNC hobby with reasonably priced products or is it every man for himself and people interested in helping have no guidance or direction? (not a complaint but a question)

Kinda nice to be part of a group that does this but the sheer number of product requests we receive make it impossible for us to achieve more than 10% of them and there is only so much I can do or are capable of doing.

Some weeks the flood of emails inquiring about products is so overwhelming I wish I had someone else to pass off some of the projects too but my biggest fear is that they will turn it into a profit-for-self project which doesn't help the hobby community.

I'm also dissatisfied that no one else is attempting to make or provide opportunities for reasonably priced products that are needed and that the general motivation is purely for financial gain and the failures are due to the products price.

Tooling is a prime example, taking into consideration that tooling manufacturers want to produce things in the quantity of 500pcs or more and I can understand this, it's almost impossible to get any of them to make something in a quantity of 20pcs or less. want 5pcs of something and the answer is definitely no, luckily, one of the china factories shares our enthusiasm and has agreed to make tooling as the need arises as long as we can provide some technical informaiton or drawings so getting him to produce an indexable face mill in BT15 with an MOQ of 10pcs is not a problem, he realizes that in doing so, later orders are usually significantly higher quantity, he just made us (making now) 6pcs of BT15-APU8 (8mm - 5/16in) medium duty CNC rated precision keyless drill chucks and these were well received by the project backers.

Another example, an extremely high precision probe (1/10,000th resolution) for less than $75.00 with a small profit is possible but the people I gave my schematic and prototype too have turned it into an expensive product with a 300% profit margin so the hobby community lost out because I had no control once these left my possession and no way to make them honor their word in making the product available at a reasonable price.

If I had the financial resources to stock products I'd do it but the overhead would be outside of what I could afford and obtaining financial backing involves high yield returns on the investment that is not a viable option when no profit exists.

I'm hoping in November I can post a project for a BT20/ISO20 spindle cartridge as the customer who made the initial order for 10pcs of BT15/ISO15 spindle cartridges has expressed an interest in this size as well.

We also made VMC frames for him and I know these are for in-house use and we sold off the extra columns (with linear rails installed) almost immediately for basically the cost of the materials so when he gives the go-ahead for the BT20/ISO20 I'll do a kickstarter for it for those who want this size.

MAN, can I be long-winded or what!!!!!

[mekanik]

I for one find it incredibly refreshing to know that people with your attitude still exist, keep up the good work M8