BuildingAfloat

[Jonathan]

Why exclude collets in the comparison? The price of the Kress collets is huge compared to the ER20 collets for the spindle if bought in China. Clearly it depends how many different size tools you end up using, but if it's a fair few the price difference wont be so great...


I don't see the point of 1) and 2) since if you use a very cheap router to start with (suggest going to car boot if there's one near you and getting a variable speed one) you wont need to buy a Kress.


3) I've used the WC spindle at 5000rpm to drill aluminium with a 4mm drill, so although the torque is limited at that speed there's still enough to be useful.
4) It's just a matter of tweaking the settings on the VFD and having good cooling. Although it helps to buy a better (more expensive) VFD.
5) eBay
6) Yes.
7) Here's one or two I made earlier:

I'd advise using 1/2" thick aluminium.

WATER-COOLED MOTOR SPINDLE 1.5KW + MATCHING INVERTER f4 | eBay

here we go.. i dont know enough about spindles yet to know if it's a good one or not,

Problem with that one is it only takes ER11 collets, so you're limited to up to 7mm cutters. That's one excellent reason to get the 2.2kW spindle - it uses ER20 collets which accept up to 13mm tools. Bear in mind several sellers here have used 'best offer' with these spindles to get them cheaper.

[wilfy]

Why exclude collets in the comparison? The price of the Kress collets is huge compared to the ER20 collets for the spindle if bought in China. Clearly it depends how many different size tools you end up using, but if it's a fair few the price difference wont be so great...


I don't see the point of 1) and 2) since if you use a very cheap router to start with (suggest going to car boot if there's one near you and getting a variable speed one) you wont need to buy a Kress.


3) I've used the WC spindle at 5000rpm to drill aluminium with a 4mm drill, so although the torque is limited at that speed there's still enough to be useful.
4) It's just a matter of tweaking the settings on the VFD and having good cooling. Although it helps to buy a better (more expensive) VFD.
5) eBay
6) Yes.
7) Here's one or two I made earlier:

I'd advise using 1/2" thick aluminium.



Problem with that one is it only takes ER11 collets, so you're limited to up to 7mm cutters. That's one excellent reason to get the 2.2kW spindle - it uses ER20 collets which accept up to 13mm tools. Bear in mind several sellers here have used 'best offer' with these spindles to get them cheaper.

i said i dont know if it's good or not as i dont have a clue and i'm glad someone stepped in to correct me, however if we are talking about longevity, yes that one might be limited in collet size, but if this is the absolute max price he can go to.. then the question is does he buy a router that will burn it's self out with a few hours hard use with the right size bits, or buy a spindle that will keep going even if it means he has to make more passes due to limited bit's he can use?

[BikerAfloat]

...but if this is the absolute max price he can go to.. then the question is does he buy a router that will burn it's self out with a few hours hard use ... or buy a spindle that will keep going ...

Excellent Wilfy, you have totally understood where I am going with my questions!

[wilfy]

Excellent Wilfy, you have totally understood where I am going with my questions!

i understand as i am at pretty much the same price point as you for my table and have the same desire to keep costs down.... the reality is that water cooled is better than the kress, defining how bad a 1.5kw spindle is compared to the other options seems to be the hardest thing to get out of anyone. as i said before if the w/c spindle has to do twice the work a kress could do but the spindle for the same price lasts more than twice the time the kress does... than it already pays for itself... if it lasts 4x or more then even if the trade off is it takes longer to make everything the fact your not buying new parts every couple of hours work makes it priceless...

if however someone turns round and says if you dont have a 2.2kw W/c spindle you wont be able to cut this that and the other then i would have to take some consideration in to the chances of me wanting to cut them things.

[Jonathan]

Excellent Wilfy, you have totally understood where I am going with my questions!

I think everyone participating in this thread understands where you are coming from since you have already made it perfectly clear. Jazz and I are just attempting to make sure you know the advantages and disadvantages of every option.

The absolute maximum price you can go to is already less than the cost of the 1.5kW ER11 spindle, hence you're going to have to wait to get a spindle anyway so all it would gain is getting the better spindle slightly sooner then some time in the future regretting not being able to use any cutters above 7mm. Consider also the cost of the cutters as that could make up the differenc. 1/2" router cutters have a large market, hence they are cheap. In addition the power from the spindle (roughly) decreases linearly from maximum power at around half rated speed to zero at zero rpm. You'll probably never use 1.5kW, let alone 2.2kW, but because of this relationship it's important to have the higher rated power to maintain enough power at low speeds.
Hence you will find it harder to use the 1.5kW spindle at low speeds - i.e. harder to cut steel or drill aluminium.

3) The VFD will let you set whatever speed you want - it's the control algorithm and ratings of the spindle that dictate how fast the spindle will run. The 8000rpm minimum you read might have been referring to the air cooled spindles which cannot be operated at low speeds since the fan would not provide sufficient airflow to cool them.

[JAZZCNC]

Excellent Wilfy, you have totally understood where I am going with my questions!

Geoff so have WE but your blinded by the desire to build cheap.! . . . . Read the thread Wilfy posted and just look at the wasted money with the end result being he's started over again doing it the way it should have been done first time.!! (Actually he's over done it for wood, with some expensive components capable of far more than the design can handle.!!)

I foreone are just trying to help save you money by not wasting money on inferior or below par components. ?

Regards Kress VS WC: You say the £100 difference buys 4 steppers.? . . . I say what's the point if the spindle's dead within a few weeks or months and the machine can't cut.!!. . . . Now those steppers are very expensive paper weights.!!

Don't look at the NOW think of the future.!!

[BikerAfloat]

Why exclude collets in the comparison?

Ignorance/Stupidity you choose! Made the assumption that I wouldn't buying enough collets to bring down the price difference significantly.

I don't see the point of 1) and 2) since if you use a very cheap router to start with (suggest going to car boot if there's one near you and getting a variable speed one) you wont need to buy a Kress.

I did say I'd shot my self in the foot! Even in the light of my foot shooting proposed strategy I would like to know the answers just out of curiosity.

3) I've used the WC spindle at 5000rpm to drill aluminium with a 4mm drill, so although the torque is limited at that speed there's still enough to be useful.

4) It's just a matter of tweaking the settings on the VFD and having good cooling. Although it helps to buy a better (more expensive) VFD.

3) Ok the spindle I found stated 8000rpm minimum, I guess from this there are VFDs that do 5000?

4) More money = better, that figures

5) eBay

6) Yes.

5) As expected, is there a preferred sell like there is with Ballscrews?
6) LOL! Would you be so kind as to post them for me or PM them to me?

7) Here's one or two I made earlier:

I'd advise using 1/2" thick aluminium.

Nice work! Several leagues ahead of what my 43mm Hole drill and extrusion clamps will be! Once I know I can work my machine with the router, I'll make it machine its own replacement a new home!

Problem with that one is it only takes ER11 collets, so you're limited to up to 7mm cutters. That's one excellent reason to get the 2.2kW spindle - it uses ER20 collets which accept up to 13mm tools. Bear in mind several sellers here have used 'best offer' with these spindles to get them cheaper.

Thanks for the collet info, I have stored away for a later date.

[wilfy]

it gets interesting around page 8