RFQ Response Etiquette, (The Man In A Shed) vs (The Commercial Operator)

[blackburn mark]

It’s all getting a bit serious on here wtf?
This used to be a site where a helpful soul could earn a quid or two by doing a "favor" for a fellow geek.
Are we now having to stomach veiled threats fueled by sour grapes?

There is an hysteresis loop twixt “hobby” and “business"... if you "business men" wish to do "business" on a hobby site you are just going to have to face the raw fact that you are attempting to compete with people that you simply cannot compete with.... just as it should be.

[alex wight]

It’s all getting a bit serious on here wtf?
This used to be a sight where a helpful soul could earn a quid or two by doing a "favor" for a fellow geek.
Are we now having to stomach veiled threats fueled by sour grapes?

There is an hysteresis loop twixt “hobby” and “business"... if you "business men" wish to do "business" on a hobby site you are just going to have to face the raw fact that you are attempting to compete with people that you simply cannot compete with.... just as it should be.

Just to clarify my position on this. I,m not running a business that incorporates a cnc machine, i do wood crafts. I pointed out what i had to do to keep me legal and also to stop back stabbers or jealous people screwing it all up for me. Giving people advice on this, is a good thing, to keep them on the correct road. Should there be a malicious person out there that wants to ruin it for the "favour" guys, then as long as your doing everything by the book you have nothing to worry about. Hope that clears things up from my point of view.

regards alex.

[JAZZCNC]

Are we now having to stomach veiled threats fueled by sour grapes?

If that was aimed at me mark, which I think it was, then I'm dissapointed because it should be clear by now I don't do Veil anything.!!. . . . If I don't like something or someone then I'll tell you point blank to your face and not with snide remarks.!! Also if I had any intent to cause malis to anyone then I'm not stupid enough to warn them.!

Regards the sour grapes then you and others may like to know I actually have similair feeling towards Jonathan has I do my teenage son.? . . . Apart from loving my son which I clearly don't Jonathan then I have great respect and admiration for him but at same time when the arrogance and Know-it-all I-know-better attitude comes out I want to punch him in the face.! . . Lol

In this case I just wanted to warn him (and others) to shut the F@~£ up before some spineless Runt does Inform on him. . . .Oh and after that post I sent him a PM explaining more about why I said that.!!

Now crack on making pocket money which I don't have any issue with at all.

[blackburn mark]

If that was aimed at me mark, which I think it was

You are entitled to consider my objections to be aimed at you if that is what blows your hair back Jazz but in the interest of science and curiosity... what exactly is it that drives you to see my objection as being levelled at you?

It wasn't levelled at you per-say... it was levelled at any "holier than thou" saints who would put stock in moral legitimacy claims on a hobby/favour/slack hand full of dollars under the tax radar for a bit of machining deal.

I may have the wrong end of the stick here but getting your knickers in a twist over my post leads me to suspect that there was indeed some spite in your words of advice to Jonathan.
If I am mistaken... one thousand apologies from me with love to you xxx
If I'm not mistaken... what can I say to make you feel better?

[JAZZCNC]

You are entitled to consider my objections to be aimed at you if that is what blows your hair back Jazz but in the interest of science and curiosity... what exactly is it that drives you to see my objection as being levelled at you?

Ah ah it's been a long time since I had any hair to blow back mate.! . . . Seemed to be levelled at me because I was the one who stated to be careful when publicly posting about charging and to be honest because of the head butting Jonathan and I often part take in I could see how narrow minded folks like you could see that has sour grapes.!

Before you ask why I think you Narrow minded then this statement answers that.!

It wasn't levelled at you per-say... it was levelled at any "holier than thou" saints who would put stock in moral legitimacy claims on a hobby/favour/slack hand full of dollars under the tax radar for a bit of machining deal.

The only thing Andy, Alex and My self offered was friendly advise based on business experience and not one of us said anything about it being immoral, wrong or gave with an "holier than thou" attitude. To twist this to anything else shows narrow mindedness to me.!!

I may have the wrong end of the stick here but getting your knickers in a twist over my post leads me to suspect that there was indeed some spite in your words of advice to Jonathan.
If I am mistaken... one thousand apologies from me with love to you xxx
If I'm not mistaken... what can I say to make you feel better?

Apologies and love accepted buddy because in no way was there any or has ever been spite towards Jonathan in any post of mine that wasn't blantly obvious or said directly to him in my rantings at him. Jonathan and Me regularely exchange information or share knowledge and even components off the forum and you can rest assured if I didn't like, have respect or had spite towards Jonathan I wouldn't give him the "Stink of my dogs business" let alone my precious time.!

Nar it's abit early for guiness buts lets Chill mate and you crack on fiddling the Tax man in confidense I won't grass you or anyone else up. . .Lol

[blackburn mark]

You don't quite paint the full picture there Jazz... the trend was alluding to the hiked prices of legit trading vs the advantage, ergo unbeatable price of Jonathan's offer being not quite cricket.
Why else would the subject of legality be brought up?

What purpose does it serve in a community where fellow geeks are for all intent and purpose, machining other peoples parts for beans?

Is the tax man really going to knock on Jonathans door for his seven beans?
hobby businesses that start to make good cash go legit and become "businesses", the tax man will take a slice of your arse when there is a slice worth taking... in the mean time the hobby/business has a good argument for being left to his own devices "until" a foothold in the cash making game has found at least some hold.... this is just common sense and would be the experience of most one man manufacture start-up's despite the fact that some would "allude" to such behaviour being less than "saintly"..... oh, and to save your knicker elastic, I'm not implying that you look down your nose at such practice and I did not have you in mind when I originally objected Jazz.

And yes Andy... Jonathan's offer was a tad crass in my opinion as well... maybe we should have stomped on his ass for that.

[JAZZCNC]

Is the tax man really going to knock on Jonathans door for his seven beans?

Yes he will and the PM I refered to was telling Jonathan that the Tax man does indeed take this serious if reported.!! . . . . Maybe doesn't go looking so much but does jump on it when reported.!!!

Reason I know this is because a friend got reported. Luckly for him my accountant is an Ex-tax inspector so helped and knew the correct procedures to lessen the impact but they still wanted there dues and where prepared to go back years to get it.!!

The Tax man is a sleeping giant . . But . . . when woken or provoked can be proper nasty bastard if thinks your taking the piss so beware.!! . . . . . Oh and compared to VAT man he's a Pussy so you better not be taking the piss past the Vat threshold.!!

[Jonathan]

in no way was there any or has ever been spite towards Jonathan in any post of mine that wasn't blantly obvious or said directly to him in my rantings at him.

You may intend to be direct in your posts, but that doesn't mean more than you intended to say can't be inferred from them. Wether what is inferred is true or not is a different matter, but Mark is entitled to speculate.

Jonathan and Me regularely exchange information or share knowledge and even components off the forum

Yeah, about once a year

point out to Jon its all very well under cutting someone else's price but when you don't have overheads and don't pay your dues and demands its not fair to make out someone is charging too much.

Have I not paid some dues? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't owe any tax due to making parts, as my total income this year (from CNC parts or otherwise) was well below the threshold?

Also, the coversation regarding myself and taxes is based on a false premise, since I said "I'll get my freind to cut it". If the transaction had occured, the transaction would have been between him and the customer, so it is his potentiallly taxable income, not mine. I'd just act as quality control!

From corkcnc's post I have assumed rightly or wrongly that he is a legitimate company
[...]
If Jon had just posted that he could do the job for £35 and left it at that then maybe I would not have posted.
I am not having a go at Jon just wanted to point out sometimes its best just to think before you post.

I don't make posts without thinking about the situation. I concede I could have been more tactful by providing the following reference and avoiding the smieley. According to this post, the user in question appears to be a 'man in a shed' business who charges (quote) 'pretty good man in a shed prices for stuff.' In my opinion this statement doesn't match the price quoted, so I took the opportunity to highlight a general point - namely what sort of price people should expect from an RFQ if it's not fulfilled by a business.

For a conventional company, then to be fair £25/h seems below average for CNC machining, especially compared to what was quoted in the last thread I was involved in where this was discussed. As a 'man in a shed' I would not be comfortable charging that much.