Comparing motion controllers...

[JAZZCNC]

So, to get back on track... There´s either the IP-M or the PoKeys57CNC right now.

Jazz had me pretty convinced about the IP-M until i read Boyans comments about the PoKeys57CNC...

How can Boyan or anyone comment when they've never used the IP-M or had any dealings with Cslabs. ?
The Pokeys is ok and for the money gives good value but it's not in the same league as the IP-M or Cslabs products. Also it does require a BOB because it's I/O are not protected. The I/O logic is still 5v and comes with all the potential noise issues low voltage can give. There's much more to Cslabs than just being in case.!

Cslabs are very good as a Company and at software, they always respond to any questions or problems. not always instantly but in general they come back to you quick enough. Which is more than lots of hardware manufacturers do. They do and have listened to requests for features that's exactly why the IP-M now does slaving, it didn't at when first released. So it's not fair for him to say such comments and condem the company just on some else comment.

I have no loyality to any manufacturer and trust me if the Pokeys was better than the IP-M or Cslabs products I'd be using it and telling you and everyone else to use it. That doesn't mean the pokeys isn't a good controller it's ok but it's not and I repeat it's NOT in the same league as the IP-M.

I spend a lot of time and money testing products I fit on machines and won't ever comment if I haven't used or tested them properly. But end of the day everyone as to make there own decison and work to different budgets. I just pass on my experience, if folks care not to listen then that's there choice.! . . . Personaly when someone with experience advises me I tend to listen.

[JW1977]

How can Boyan or anyone comment when they've never used the IP-M or had any dealings with Cslabs. ?
The Pokeys is ok and for the money gives good value but it's not in the same league as the IP-M or Cslabs products. Also it does require a BOB because it's I/O are not protected. The I/O logic is still 5v and comes with all the potential noise issues low voltage can give. There's much more to Cslabs than just being in case.!

Cslabs are very good as a Company and at software, they always respond to any questions or problems. not always instantly but in general they come back to you quick enough. Which is more than lots of hardware manufacturers do. They do and have listened to requests for features that's exactly why the IP-M now does slaving, it didn't at when first released. So it's not fair for him to say such comments and condem the company just on some else comment.

I have no loyality to any manufacturer and trust me if the Pokeys was better than the IP-M or Cslabs products I'd be using it and telling you and everyone else to use it. That doesn't mean the pokeys isn't a good controller it's ok but it's not and I repeat it's NOT in the same league as the IP-M.

I spend a lot of time and money testing products I fit on machines and won't ever comment if I haven't used or tested them properly. But end of the day everyone as to make there own decison and work to different budgets. I just pass on my experience, if folks care not to listen then that's there choice.! . . . Personaly when someone with experience advises me I tend to listen.

Well im all ears and i try to keep an open mind. I will make my decision based only upon the answers i will get from you here.
Btw i have send the people att CSLABS a mail now.
What do you say about the IP-M lacking electronic backlash compensation?

[JAZZCNC]

What do you say about the IP-M lacking electronic backlash compensation?

I say for router it's not required. If you have that much backlash that it shows in wood or light aluminium work then you need to address the problem. Software won't help you.!

To answer George(Komatias) mentioning the Big boys using backlash comp then it's like comparing apples with oranges. There control software is in another league to anything we use and can't be compared. They are also talking about tiny tiny amounts of backlash that you could only dream about getting close to achieveing.

The ESS is perfectly good Controller I never said it wasn't and I do use them. But it offers very little other than individual homing for a stepper system. The Extra frequency it allows you can't use. The BOB is potential problem despite what may be said and unless you buy decent quality BOB then it's like a lottery to how long it lasts or starts giving you troubles. In the past I've built machines with BOB's which work fine for years then all of sudden for no apparent reasons hair pulling issues start creaping into the machine. 99% of the time BOB is the cause.!

Regards using Timing belts then you won't loose any precision and keeps perfect sync of screws. If the machine isn't too large then I'd use Belts over Twin motors every time.

[JW1977]

I say for router it's not required. If you have that much backlash that it shows in wood or light aluminium work then you need to address the problem. Software won't help you.!

To answer George(Komatias) mentioning the Big boys using backlash comp then it's like comparing apples with oranges. There control software is in another league to anything we use and can't be compared. They are also talking about tiny tiny amounts of backlash that you could only dream about getting close to achieveing.

The ESS is perfectly good Controller I never said it wasn't and I do use them. But it offers very little other than individual homing for a stepper system. The Extra frequency it allows you can't use. The BOB is potential problem despite what may be said and unless you buy decent quality BOB then it's like a lottery to how long it lasts or starts giving you troubles. In the past I've built machines with BOB's which work fine for years then all of sudden for no apparent reasons hair pulling issues start creaping into the machine. 99% of the time BOB is the cause.!

Regards using Timing belts then you won't loose any precision and keeps perfect sync of screws. If the machine isn't too large then I'd use Belts over Twin motors every time.

Well i could "close" one of the short sides of the machine and put a belt design there. I would also save some money using 3 drivers/motors instead of 4. Could put those in som decent high voltage leadshine drivers instead.
The squaring problem would be gone and based upon what you told me the IP-M feels like a pretty bulletproof controller... It feels like the right thing to do. Its easier to make the machine better if i would like to once Ove got it up and running.
Should i make a belt tensioner or do i build it "right" directly?
Btw the machine is roughly about 900x700 mm...

[Boyan Silyavski]

How can Boyan or anyone comment when they've never used the IP-M or had any dealings with Cslabs. ?
The Pokeys is ok and for the money gives good value but it's not in the same league as the IP-M or Cslabs products. Also it does require a BOB because it's I/O are not protected. The I/O logic is still 5v and comes with all the potential noise issues low voltage can give. There's much more to Cslabs than just being in case.!

Cslabs are very good as a Company and at software, they always respond to any questions or problems. not always instantly but in general they come back to you quick enough. Which is more than lots of hardware manufacturers do. They do and have listened to requests for features that's exactly why the IP-M now does slaving, it didn't at when first released. So it's not fair for him to say such comments and condem the company just on some else comment.

I have no loyality to any manufacturer and trust me if the Pokeys was better than the IP-M or Cslabs products I'd be using it and telling you and everyone else to use it. That doesn't mean the pokeys isn't a good controller it's ok but it's not and I repeat it's NOT in the same league as the IP-M.

I spend a lot of time and money testing products I fit on machines and won't ever comment if I haven't used or tested them properly. But end of the day everyone as to make there own decison and work to different budgets. I just pass on my experience, if folks care not to listen then that's there choice.! . . . Personaly when someone with experience advises me I tend to listen.

The CSMIO is ~3 times more expensive than Pokeys, so really what we are talking about here? I have USA made non protected 5v breakout board coupled with Gecko that did not miss a step ever working sometimes 24/7 at 70 degrees C, by the way LPT, so at the end it matters if it works or not.

[JAZZCNC]

The CSMIO is ~3 times more expensive than Pokeys, so really what we are talking about here?

Personally I was talking about you Bad mouthing a Company and there product you have never used or dealt with. IMO that's wrong.

The rest is personal choice or budget driven. Pokeys is fine piece of kit which as you know I do use but it's not in the same league as Cslabs and if you'd used one you'd understand what I mean.!

[Boyan Silyavski]

Personally I was talking about you Bad mouthing a Company and there product you have never used or dealt with. IMO that's wrong.

The rest is personal choice or budget driven. Pokeys is fine piece of kit which as you know I do use but it's not in the same league as Cslabs and if you'd used one you'd understand what I mean.!

I was at the point of buying the 6 axis controller last summer. I have checked a couple of times the price then and at the end i decided to swallow the pill. So i see price 640 or something then. I push the button and place the order, whaaaat, +23% +shipping =~800 euro

So thats why didnt like them at once. I started with them on the bad leg. I would have bought their servo drivers also. But i hate hidden costs and cheap price tricks.

Not that i am not saying that i will not buy or recommend their product. If Pokeys dont work right i will have to buy the CSMIO. Now that i see that the IP-S is cheaper, or again its some trick.

[dodgygeeza]

What's the trick? Don't you pay tax or shipping in your country? there is a reason that they show the price with no tax added and this is because most of the customers who buy their products are businesses who either clam the tax back or dont pay the tax at all. as for the shipping, you give me one example where a shopping cart system knows your address to work out the shipping costs before you have registered?

The CSMIO pisses over any mach 3 motion controller on the market, the S and the A version are high end systems, so you should expect to pay high prices.

I was at the point of buying the 6 axis controller last summer. I have checked a couple of times the price then and at the end i decided to swallow the pill. So i see price 640 or something then. I push the button and place the order, whaaaat, +23% +shipping =~800 euro

So thats why didnt like them at once. I started with them on the bad leg. I would have bought their servo drivers also. But i hate hidden costs and cheap price tricks.

Not that i am not saying that i will not buy or recommend their product. If Pokeys dont work right i will have to buy the CSMIO. Now that i see that the IP-S is cheaper, or again its some trick.

[Boyan Silyavski]

The trick is that we a discussing here in a DIY thread in a forum. So final prices should be made absolutely clear when giving advices. And comparing things. And if you dont understand what i am saying let me say it again. I was misled at the time, due to people here saying prices without tax and comparing them to prices with tax.

And i am saying this not only for electronics. Same for steel versus aluminum / yeah,Dean, the gantry again/ . One thing is to buy from scrap yard or metal shop material for gantry, cut, weld ,use 1kg of epoxy or simply shim and paint with whatever paint you have. Another is to buy 6m aluminum profile where 1m costsas all of the before said together.

I am an absolute fan of perfection, so i could easily recommend all aluminum heavy duty plate machine, custom made and surfaced, servo motors, ATC spindle,, superior motion control, etc.

But when i say "servo" i say always what servo. Chinese for 400, second hand for 400 or new for 1600. Let be more clear, thats what i am saying.


i will stop hijacking the thread, so if sb wants to tell me something, to tell me in other thread or via PM

[JAZZCNC]

The trick is that we a discussing here in a DIY thread in a forum. So final prices should be made absolutely clear when giving advices. And comparing things. And if you dont understand what i am saying let me say it again. I was misled at the time, due to people here saying prices without tax and comparing them to prices with tax.

Who told you a price on this forum.? If it was me then I will have quoted Zapp prices not Cslabs because I buy from UK importer not direct from Cslabs and I will have quoted Inc UK Vat.

Also your Steel/Scrap analogy is weak. The same could be said for Aluminium, most Scrap yards deal in aluminium as well.!!

End of the day it's down to each builder to decide which material suits him or her best. But you can't say things like Aluminium profile is weak and needs re-enforcing with steel to be used for gantry only 1500 wide and cutting mostly wood. That's just not true and it's misleading.

If you don't like me saying this then don't say with such authority stuff that isn't true or you don't have any experience working with.!! . . . . Boyan you should know by now I'll always comment on things like this no matter who says it and would expect the same from you or others if I said same or mislead anyone so please don't feel picked on. .