Boxford 165 HMC

[chris w]

ok thanks for keeping it simple jazz the estop is now operational from ground through spare contact to 0v on both the IP-S and the MPG module I then went a step further and put the ground (feed to the contactor) into estop1 on the MPG module and put ESTOP2 to ground as the MPG module ESTOP button opens the circuit then mach 3 knows about it,
but no because as soon as I push the enable the spindle motor spins, so I put the feed to contactor ground not through the MPG module and it works fine yet in the cs labs instructions it shows the ESTOP1 and ESTOP2 are just a switch, am I being simple and missing something?
the MPG is not smooth at all, is that for another thread??
chris.

[JAZZCNC]

I then went a step further and put the ground (feed to the contactor) into estop1 on the MPG module and put ESTOP2 to ground as the MPG module ESTOP button opens the circuit then mach 3 knows about it,
but no because as soon as I push the enable the spindle motor spins, so I put the feed to contactor ground not through the MPG module and it works fine yet in the cs labs instructions it shows the ESTOP1 and ESTOP2 are just a switch, am I being simple and missing something?
the MPG is not smooth at all, is that for another thread??
chris.

No not being simple it is just a switch. Think of it like a relay E1 & E2 are just a contact which are controlled by pins 13 & 25 which are like the coil. In reality it will be a transistor or something like that but principle is the same.

So E1 & E2 just go in series with your main E-stop that drops the Contactors. The control will know then because the Input you run thru the Contactor spare terminal will signal this.
Provided your Main E-stop Circuit is a Latching one then Pushing Enable should have No affect if E-stop is pressed. It shouldn't even spin when Enable is pushed if Mach isn't reset and then when it is still shouldn't spin untill given a M3 command or spindle spin button pressed. So Sounds to me like you still have something wrong on the spindle side.

Or If when you push E-stop then release it your system becomes live again then your not safe. You should have a Reset button that will only allow a Restart when things are correct.

Can't help with the Rough MPG I'm afraid. Are you using a pendent bought with MPG or is it one you made up.? Could be dodgy wiring so encoder signals are wrong or faulty Rotery MPG.?

[chris w]

hello thanks for the information guys the estop on the machine and the mpg unit (CS labs mpg so should be a reliable plugin) are properly functional with the enable push button doing what it should and the spindle behaving itself,
we have progressed quite quickly to say I was completely lost!!
would it be deemed unprofessional to wire the spindle forward relay only and strip out the reverse wiring?
dont get me wrong I would like full functionality out of the machine but for the amount of time it will take me to work out how to wire the reverse without damaging the CS labs unit versus the amount of times I will use m4
is quite an easy desicion but if it really isn't that difficult I do enjoy learning.
uli did you manage to do that spindle wiring sketch at weekend?
jazz where does the latching relay come into play with the spindle wiring as the examples I have seen on how to reverse a motor on the net can be done with 2 relays with the motor wires opposed?
i notice quite a lot of differences between my machine and Ulis machine to say they are only 1 digit apart on the serial number, maybe my machine has had some not so great work done to it in its lifetime......dunno
if you men are getting tired of this then I am sorry cos I don't want this to be a lifetime project I just wanna make stuff and develop while reading other people's questions rather than being the one asking,
any info is all good info,
thanks guys,
chris.

[JAZZCNC]

would it be deemed unprofessional to wire the spindle forward relay only and strip out the reverse wiring?
dont get me wrong I would like full functionality out of the machine but for the amount of time it will take me to work out how to wire the reverse without damaging the CS labs unit versus the amount of times I will use m4
is quite an easy desicion but if it really isn't that difficult I do enjoy learning.

No it's not unprofessional and we are DIY so what's it matter.! But that said it's not difficult to do anyway so really no reason why not to have it.
The main thing is that the Spindle comes to a Complete stop before the Reverse Command executes. Mach3 provides a way for this using CW & CCW Spindle Delay before turning on the relavant output. It's just a case doing a bit of experimenting with timings to how long it takes for spindle to come to complete stop. . . .See pic:

jazz where does the latching relay come into play with the spindle wiring as the examples I have seen on how to reverse a motor on the net can be done with 2 relays with the motor wires opposed?

The Latching Circuit I refered to was the E-stop circuit which has nothing to do with the Spindle Reversing. Only affect on Spindle would be to Turn it off in E-stop condition. The controller would be informed of the E-stop so should Stop spindle starting back up automaticly after E-stop and machine is reset. Not until Spindle Start button or M3/4 command is given should the spindle start up again.

if you men are getting tired of this then I am sorry cos I don't want this to be a lifetime project I just wanna make stuff and develop while reading other people's questions rather than being the one asking,

Ask away Chris I for one don't get tired of answering if can help. The harder or more difficult the question the better really because it makes me think deeper.
Often the Hard part with helping is not the actual problem but working out what someone with less experience is trying to get across. Many times I read some question and start computing solutions only to realise that they are actually meaning a completely different thing to what came across in the question.

[chris w]

Hi guys, I am considering stripping the whole cabinet and fitting new motors and drives and spindle vfd and motor I don't want to be spannering this thing for the rest of my days I wanna make stuff and the amount of time that this machine has absorbed in the last 12 moths is a worry cos it's not finished yet and I face the fact that I am out of my comfort zone with the experimenting of moving wires around and waiting for magic smoke,
i see that zapp are agents for CS labs gear and they are mentioned lots of times in a positive manner, would there be an ideal match to suit the bit that I will keep which is the ip-s.....closed loop, servo or stepper????
if I going to do it it might as well be right, as for the A axis I would really like to make this a full 4th rather than 45 degree would I need to change the mechanics of the drive to minimise backlash......uli you said you wanted to fit a disc brake to the underside of the table, I presume just to keep some "load" on it to reduce backlash?
as always any advice is good,
thanks,
chris.

[JAZZCNC]

Chris I'll help you with this Don't go throwing good money away until your sure it's needed. I'll send you my number if you ring me I'm sure we can get you going easy enough. It's always difficult via forum alone but I've got many people working using the phone and Email. Give me a ring.

[uli12us]

MY machine is working, without the control issue. So I don't see the necessarity of removing everything of it.
If you like a better resolution, you can eventually change the Stepperdrivers for newer products.
The problem with the old parts is, nobody knows, who have produced it. The mousepiano on it promised, that you can choose from various microsteppings. But without a users manual, which switch is for what?
The Steppermotors are actual models, they are sold until today, let it be, if they work.
I hope, I can make all the work with the machine today, then I can give you the wiring for the
Relays.

I'm a bit further now, but haven't completed the wiring. The small relay RL4 goes only to the RL1, which changes the direction of the mill spindle. Tomorrow I look at the wiring of the Iso-board, and then it should be all complete for programming the spindle with the CSmio Board.

The terminal block beside the RL2 is in this direction +5V, +12V, +24V and +70V which goes only to the stepper drivers. 12V to stepper drivers as well.

But I miss a lot of fuses in the machine. I think each Stepperdrive should have an extra fuse,
as well as the spindle motor, thats I think is integrated in the Lenze drive.

[chris w]

Hello men, I have been busy altering the spindle and the y axis casting!!!!
i know the machine isn't original but it will be fit for purpose for me it's a 18,000 rpm teknomotor with an er 25 collet, running on a vfd, I want to be able to take advantage of speeds and feeds for brass parts and leaving the machine electrics "stuck" in the 1990s without proper diagrams for trouble shooting is a problem for me.
jazz thanks for the pm I am thankful for the offer of help,
i am stripping the system out and starting again, fitting limit/ homing switches touch probe for tool length setting,
uli what is the prox switch for on the a axis?? The switch is present but nothing connected to it on the other side of the terminal block,

i have lost about 25mm in z axis but it's ok to work in centre of table with a chuck and I will make an off centre tombstone for any bigger jobs.
here is a pic from the new motor fitted,

I will put the odd picture on of the alteration, some proper "you've done it now" and "oh shit no going back now" moments, and until it's up and running there will always be an element of "have I done the right thing"
but it's done now and I am suited with the result so far,

I did this part on a vertical at work at night,