Advice on converting my VMC

[Proteus]

You can do cheaper and have Mach3. The breakout board on my lathe is only like £30. This gives step / direction for a number of axis and a single relay output. It's basic but works.

Yeah, i know Chaz.
But my plan is not necessarily finding a solution as cheap as possible. I will spend the money necessary(within limits) converting it to a good accurate VMC.
However i was hoping to find parts I`m able to handle without me studying programming for a couple of years before i get it up and running.
Hope i don`t sound impatiant though :-)

[Chaz]

Yeah, i know Chaz.
But my plan is not necessarily finding a solution as cheap as possible. I will spend the money necessary(within limits) converting it to a good accurate VMC.
However i was hoping to find parts I`m able to handle without me studying programming for a couple of years before i get it up and running.
Hope i don`t sound impatiant though :-)

Just highlighting the scale of options, so from £50 to thousands for a controller.

[Proteus]

Chaz,
I apologize if my question can seem somewhat stupid, but how do i control the 4/5th axis cradle if i install a 3 axis controller ?
Jupp.. I`m a newbie :-)

[Boyan Silyavski]

Yeah, i know Chaz.
But my plan is not necessarily finding a solution as cheap as possible. I will spend the money necessary(within limits) converting it to a good accurate VMC.
However i was hoping to find parts I`m able to handle without me studying programming for a couple of years before i get it up and running.
Hope i don`t sound impatiant though :-)

The offline controller is simpler than the combo Windows-Mach3/4-motion control plugin-motion control. What programming? The first part of the manual covers manual programming of simple milling jobs i think that you mistakenly took for programming..

Once you set up your machine in controller menu
stick usb and hit probe, then play and you are done.

The mach 3/4 is the same as above, plus install Windows, plugin, macros, custom screens, etc.

All this talk about the offline controllers lately comes as search continues for simpler and more reliable than the windows combinations. These have existed from the time machine exists, now for first time they are cheaper than the windows solutions, which to begin with, were born out of necessity, cause a Siemens controller would set you up even today 10k

[Proteus]

Hmm.. Okay Boyan,
I think i seriously need to sit down and take a closer look at the manual on this offline controller...

[Proteus]

Must be something to this GSK 990 controller, because i just noticed Weiss Machinery are using them on some of their mills..

[JAZZCNC]

Or you could be our guinea pig and try one of the standalone 3- 4 axis chinese controllers. I will point you from where and which one exactly, if interested. Around 500-600 euro. means 300 euro cheaper than CSMIO and mach4 is another 200. I will buy it off if you are not happy. Just i don't have physical time to do all i want to, and one of these things is test said controller.

Boyan That's little out of order to me and not very good advise for someone who's stated got no experience and who's wanting to convert a mill with full ATC.

The work involved just for the ATC is enough to make experienced user shy away and that's with mach3/4. So with Chinese controller that very few people know anything about with Chinglish manual that's about clear as mud isn't some thing I'd be recommending any new user to get into.!

Proteus you need to think long and hard how your going to tackle this and what hardware your going to use other wise you could cripple or spoil very nice machine.
Don't let all this talk about Offline controllers scare you away from PC based controllers because they work fine and have massive user base which can help you no end. Esp with bespoke ATC setups etc.
The same can't be said for the offline controllers and the jury is still out and will be for very long time untill they become more common.

Also I'm pretty sure they won't be simple to setup for anything but basic ATC setup. You will be required to write macros or learn some form of ladder logic for more complex ATC.
The same is true for Mach3 or Linux etc but with the difference that many have already done it or will be able to assist with macros etc.

Good luck.

[Boyan Silyavski]

I am not sure about what you say Dean. Part of me agrees, part of me thinks differently. I am not defending anything here, just my cold reasonable thoughts /of a traitor who sometimes out of frustration is secretly working for the enemy /




This is how i am thinking.I am just proposing.Anyone should decide for himself. Only the facts:



-you can not skip machine setup with either controller

-that mr H. or sb else has made his machine ATC work with Mach3 or 4 is Not = support from sb if you start going the same way. Even if someone that knows will have the desire to help you, these people are busy, so lack of time will make that impossible.
I have still fresh memories about 2x expensive Galil boards in my possession,you know there is a plugin for them and Mach3. Even a support forum. fresh memories come to mind how nobody could help me when help was needed. So- No, don't rely to support or help if doing anything specific.

-an expert in Macros will have no problem programming any controller or software and making an ATC work

-Windows is crappy, PC even a cheap one could become quite expensive when starts to waste your time. Especially if you value it. You need right away to change the disk to a flash drive to avoid reliability problems, reinstall windows and so on,

-exchanging a dead controller is 1/2 hour. changing a PC-combo could take days . I know that for a fact, even that i am a Pc geek. What about the people that are not?

- i am sure the user database on the Chinese controllers is much bigger in volume than any typical one or even the whole Mach user database. These controllers are sold in the millions and i know that for a fact. Its known for a fact that they are fitted on ATC machines, have seen enough videos on the net and that some companies silently retrofit them here in Europe.

-if you hire sb from west expect >50-60 per hour for that job. I know at least of a couple of companies that could sell you the controller a bit more expensive but know what they are doing and speak English. So presale questions could be asked and even they could do the heavy lifting with the ATC setup.

-when real problems are encountered with an EU or USA made board, all publicity crap is not valid. Expect to be the guinea pig. Paying guinea pig. Expect lame answers, unacceptance of the problem and so on. No beauty from that moment on.




at the other hand:

-Chinese are extremely unreliable, cheat like monkeys, haggle like old gypsies and pretend to be dumb like donkeys. Like every other Asian they think they are superior to us - in trade, intelligence and cunning. Its a fact that any Asian is better in trade.

-Chinglish manuals are serious challenge to anyone's intelligence

-Chinese don't care what they sell here, they have enormous market

-Chinese don't have a hacking idea what we need, what functions are needed for DIY machine of any type or for a retrofit.

-Whatever they sell to us they seriously overcharge for it compared to their real price for Chinese market and meanwhile having the self satisfaction that they are hacking us

-Chinese make copies of the copies

[Proteus]

Jazzcnc, Thank you for Your thoughts :-)
Beleive me, i can not be talked into a solution i don`t feel comfortable with, but i don`t get easily scared of new solutions or technology either.
I am a self made man, learned electronics, computers and mechanics on my own, and to a level where i actually get employed by companies, and i`m proud of it.
I`m actually very curious about the GSX-990 Controller, and i will at some time next year incorporate it in my converted BF25 mill.
The VMC300 however is a cute little thing i want to make use of for smaller things, and will most likely run on a network 6 axis controller from Automation Technologies.
As for the ATC, i`m waiting for some pictures from a very helpful guy(The Engine Guy at CNCZone) who has the same machine, and where the ATC is controlled by some PLC.

My reason for this post is to get some feedback from you guys on choice of voltage and noise issues, experience with the 6 axis motion controller boards from Automation Technologies(or others),-
and issues with ATC communication.
I`m very curious with the CSMIO/IP-S and the HiCon Integra Controllers from Automation Technologies, claiming easy integration of Tool Changer.

[Clive S]

-Windows is crappy, PC even a cheap one could become quite expensive when starts to waste your time. Especially if you value it. You need right away to change the disk to a flash drive to avoid reliability problems, reinstall windows and so on,

I know that for a fact, even that i am a Pc geek. What about the people that are not?

Boyan How can you say the above with conviction. Windows is not crappy and you certainly do not require to change the hard drive to a flash drive. Hard drives will run for many years without any problems. Flash drives are new on the block and have not been tested for many years in service as yet. Although I am getting to like them.

at the other hand:

etc. We could say the same about the Russians but that would not be fair either

-if you hire sb from west expect >50-60 per hour for that job. I know at least of a couple of companies that could sell you the controller a bit more expensive but know what they are doing and speak English. So presale questions could be asked and even they could do the heavy lifting with the ATC setup.

If you know where to buy these and get good support why not put links up. Remember this is a forum to help each other not for self gain.